Sunday, 23 September 2007

Zounds! Swearing in Fantasy

Here's one we can all get our teeth into. An issue that comes up from time to time, and one that looks as if it will come up a bit more for me since publication in America, is that of the use of 'modern' swear-words in fantasy.

Blast my potty-mouth, it gets me in all kinds of trouble. Since sensitive souls may well stumble upon this particular post, I will use asterisks to spare their blushes.

John, over at Grasping for the Wind, is having a very polite, dignified and well-thought out discussion with my American editor, Lou Anders on this very topic, and he's taken his recent reading of The Blade Itself as his starting point. So naturally I thought I would throw in my obscene, over-dramatic and ill-considered thoughts.

There was an interesting discussion of this very issue (which again started with a reading of The Blade Itself , blast my potty-mouth again) over at SFFWorld a while back. Some of the objections raised to swearing there (and I underline that these are not necessarily John's objections) were: that these are 'modern' swear-words out of context in a 'ye olde' fantasy setting, that you're better off making up a culture-specific oath like 'by the holy orb of Zalxoz I will destroy thee!', that you can just make up your own non-offensive word to substitute for the evil English creations (like BSGs frel, for example).

So allow me to viciously destroy this straw-man I have myself created, by repeating parts of the post I made there:

The notion that 'folks all spoke nice in them old days' is entirely a Victorian invention. The three words that I believe we are chiefly talking about here (F**K, S**T, and C**T, forgive my euphemisms) are all words with long and proud traditions in the english language, going back hundreds of years.

Of course, fantasy is not history. Fantasies can include all kinds of different elements corresponding to different time periods. Furthermore, even if we are describing a pseudo-medieval setting, no-one could pretend that we are writing for a medieval audience. As I see it, an author has to select the mode of expression which he feels best communicates his meaning, or the meaning of his characters, to a reader of modern English. It's a question of judgement, and, as with the explicitness of sex or violence in a book, every author will find his own way, and different readers will have their own unique response.

For me, as a reader, I find complicated oaths (by the holy beard of Swarfega etc.) to be unconvincing (and often truly risible) unless very well integrated into some specific element of a fantasy culture, and even then they are rarely a good substitute for a simple S**T in times of high excitement. When I stub my toe I very rarely reach for a culture-specific mouthful such as, "by the golden boots of David Beckham!" or some such.

To make up a word simply to act as a substitute for a perfectly good English word seems to me almost cowardly, and as a reader I would find it extremely irritating. After all, if frel or whatever is supposed to mean F**K, why not just call a spade a spade? And if it doesn't mean F**K, then what the f**k is it supposed to mean? I can see the point if it means a TV show can air before the watershed, but I can't for the life of me see the point in an adult work of fiction.

Take that, you straw motherf*cker!

But seriously.

For me, the inclusion of swearing isn't about trying to inject grittiness, or to make my books adult, or even to try and make them sell (though that would be nice). It's a question of honesty. You see, when I started writing, my Mum said to me, "Joe, you've got to be honest. You've got to think about every description, every line of speech, every image that you use and ask yourself - is this true? Is this how that thing really looks? Is this how a person would really speak? Keep everything absolutely true, and you can never go far wrong." Best piece of advice I've ever had. Apart from don't eat yellow snow, of course.

Now some folks might say, "hey, it's fantasy, it doesn't have to be real," but I'd say the exact opposite. It's happening in a made up place, so it has to be more real than ever. Its being fantasy doesn't forgive its being unconvincing, its being dishonest, its being false. Between you (which of course is potentially the entire world, but f*ck it) and me, I think fantasy is a genre where authors get away with weak-ass, lazy dialogue way too often.

It goes without saying that, ultimately, every reader's interpretation of what is false or unconvincing is going to be different, and some are going to find the use of swear-words jarring, but it isn't the reader's opinion that's important here, it's the writer's. Precisely because every reader will see things differently, you simply can't take their potential opinons into account when you write. You have to write for yourself first. You have to write the kind of book that you love, that you find true, and just hope you'll be carrying some people along with you. The alternative is just to turn out bland, commercial pulp that you think is going to please the widest market, and that type of sh*t rarely works, even commercially.

As a reader, there's nothing more irritating to me than faux-shakespearian dialogue, "verily, my liege, we should teach these goblins a harsh lesson." I swear a lot in my everyday work and home life, it's part of my everyday mode of expression and that of most people I relate to, so it would seem odd to me if my characters didn't. It would certainly seem very, very odd if characters who are, to put it nicely, scum, didn't swear in life-threatening situations. There are some words I don't use, because they don't feel right in the setting. I don't use b*ll*cks. Too English rugby club. I don't use d*ck (if you'll allow the expression), but I've nothing against c*ck and pr*ck, depending on who's talking. After all, what are you supposed to call it? Or should you just avoid talking about it at all?

Incidentally, I'm not knocking writers who don't use piles of swearing. That's their business, and it's all part of creating a consistent atmosphere that feels right and honest for them and their readers. Lord of the Rings wouldn't be improved if Gandalf told the Balrog to f*ck itself, for example. Or maybe it would?

Having said all that, on reading the Blade Itself recently, I did think I'd gone a bit too far with the swearing - not necessarily in the quantity - but in the variety of characters and situations I'd applied it to. I think perhaps when you write two chapters and have a swear-word in each, for example, in the experience of writing, those words might be a week apart. In the experience of reading they might be only five minutes apart. And overuse definitely does reduce impact. As everyone would, I'm sure, agree, it's a delicate balance. But one that, ultimately, every author has to find their own way with. If you spent your time worrying about what might offend every possible reader, you'd never write a word...

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Comments:
Interesting article Joe. Have to say that I don't have any problems with swearing in novels and I don't recall thinking that you made use of them too often.

In fact I see them as necessary to establish some degree of realism in the writing. I don't watch TV soaps, but when I am unfortunate enough to see one it always rankles with me that some characters, when finding themselves in a nasty situation, mutter "flamin' 'eck!" rather than a straight forward 'oh f*ck'! Of course there is good reason for this, but I hope you see my point. A well-used swear word can help to the reader to guage the seriousness of the situation and add some realism.

Incidentally, I'd love to see an alternative version of LOTR where the balrog mounts the bridge, nostrils flaring and fire rippling across its massive frame, only for Gandalf to sigh and say, "Oh, f*ck off you silly c*nt."
 
Thanks for another entertaining post - I have to confess to being somewhat potty-mouthed in real life so I guess my tolerance level for it in fiction is pretty high. I didn't recall your book being that bad though, so perhaps I'm even more tolerant than I thought?

Oh, and by the way: 'frel' is actually from Farscape, while the good folks of BSG prefer to 'frak!'.
 
Terrific article, Joe.

When I originally saw John's article I knew it was a subject that I wanted to broach. Your take on the subject spurred me to get off my ass and do it.

You can find my take over at my own blog where I use this article and John's article as heavy sources. You might be interested in what I have to say on the subject.

This is something I feel pretty strongly about and it always bothers me when people complain about not being able to get into a work like George RR Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire because of nothing more than the bad language.

Thanks for sharing your take on it, Joe.

~Aidan
A Dribble of Ink
 
As it happens, Tim Lebbon covered the same subject in his BFS Award for best novel acceptance speech this afternoon at Fantasycon. Apparently some folks have objected to his use of the f**k word in Dusk and Dawn, to which his reply (probably paraphrased slightly, but I think I remember the gist) was: "well, if I have to invent a new word for 'f**k', then I also have to invent new words for 'sword' and 'tree' and 'bread', at which point I'm just going to end up inventing and writing a whole new language..."

And I think the point about honesty in writing is absolutely right. And Let's face it - warrior-types through the ages have tended to be pretty forthright and colourful in their speech patterns and to ignore this completely, merely in order to protect the delicate sensibilities of a few potential audience members is to rob the prose of a whole layer of authenticity. Which would be just plain f**king dumb, if you ask me.
 
I find your use of the words " David Beckham " completely offensive in every way . Really , Joe - this takes the proverbial biscuit . Get a grip , man ;p

P.S - frel was Farscape , BSG is frack , as in frack you , motherfracker .

love
Jo
 
Thanks for your thoughts Joe. I agree that the writer has to decide for himself what is too much and what is just the right amount.

I know from my few visits to London that swearing is much more acceptable and common in England than it is in the United States. So for readers in Britain, this might be less of an issue. Those of us stateside are a wee bit more sensitive.

I also like that you point out that this is how you speak, and therefore how you write. That makes good plain sense.

Your books are not an example of overuse of swearing. I felt that some characters swore who didn't have too and that perhaps some did unnecessarily, but didn't feel you pushed the limit.

Overuse would be something like using the swear words two or three times in the same sentence. So much so that the meaning of the sentence was lost in the story.

Fantasy doesn't have to have Victorian language to be good, nor does it have to by wholly clean.

I would say, (no slight to you mother) that the honesty argument can be used by people who simply want an excuse to be crass. But if a good author like you uses it, than anyone can, so an author should be careful about using that as a starting point for his reasons for using swearing.

Good points though, I was writing from the reader' side and realized later that perhaps I forgot to take in the author's side as well. You did that excellently. Thanks.
 
Jackie and Jo,
Frak is definitely better than frel, but let's face it, there's not an awful lot in it.

Ariel,
Interesting that Tim Lebbon should make that point - the whole area of translation of a presumably foreign language into English. We probably assume the characters in a fantasy book aren't talking in English. But at the same time we (the writers, that is) don't necessarily 'translate' into modern vernacular, even though our readers are, of course, contemporary English speakers. "Talk to the hand," said Aragorn, "before I slap you upside the head." We avoid certain words that don't feel right. We use the odd strange, idiosyncratic term to give the feel of alienness. We make up names for characters that give a 'flavour' of what our theoretical languages might sound like. It's all a bit of a smoke and mirrors thing to produce roughtly the 'feel' that we're after. I guess everyone's notion of truthfulness in this case is something a little bit different.

John,
You're absolutely right - honesty alone is not the seal of quality. An honest book can be crass, ill-considered, or, for that matter, simply bad. But I'm not sure that a book that is frequently dishonest (in this sense) can ever be that good. Better to err on the side of excessive honesty, for my money, even if you'll ruffle a few feathers on the way.
 
Personally, I feel that the word c**t should EVER be used in ANY context.
 
Greetings anonymous.

I'm assuming you mean "NEVER be used in any context".

Clearly it's an offensive word, but could I ask why you feel so very strongly?
 
I'd much rather have venerable anglosaxon words like f***, s*** and c*** than anachronisms like 'wow' or 'OK'.
 
Anonymous is clearly american, and americans hate the word c*nt. It's a language barrier ;)
 
I too would be interested in the thinking behind c**t "NEVER be[ing] used in any context". I suppose every language and culture has to have an 'ultimate' swear word, which therefore needs to be used sparingly to retain its power. But c**t isn't 'the' word everywhere. A Catalan frend explained that it's much milder in those (ahem) parts, used in expessions such as 'que cono pasa' ('what the c**t is going on here'), and 'quinto cono' ('the fifth c**t', a remote place out in the sticks.) (He may have been lying to get me in trouble by glibly using these phrases in conversation with nuns and small children, but it had the ring of truth.)

My wife's feminism made the c word as rare as unicorn pudendae in our household for many a year. However a recent change of heart ('3rd wave feminism', perhaps, or the influence of your books) means that we now use it all the time - usually in nonsensical ways such as 'It's bright as a c**t outside', or 'The dinner is as cooked as a c**t'.

My all-time favouite usage was when I was working on the door of a club. An aged bouncer explained why chasing someone who had, hypothetically, taken the cash box and run round the corner would be unwise as 'They would punch the c**t out of ye.'

In sum, the language would be sdadly diminished without this word.
 
niamh,
They do seem to see that particular word differently.

Bob,
Interesting, this c*nt business. The problem I've got at the moment is not the use of the word as an insult, but it's use as defined in the dictionary. Put simply, if one is looking for a decent slang word for the female genitals that would sound in any way authentic in a fantasy novel, I ask you - where else can you go? Seriously. Answers on a postcard, people.
 
Totally agree with you! I think using made up swear-words is a bit cowardly and also unnecessary.

Though, for me, it's not just swear words that get on my nerves - it's when they start replacing words like "cat" and "dog" for obscure things which, when they then go to describe, is basically just a cat or dog.

Like apparently everyone else to reply to this post, I think LOTR would have been particularly improved by swearing (and some sarcastic humour) too. J.G. Thomas's example was particularly funny.

Can't wait for the 3rd book!
 
I just read the first book, bought the third book at the store, and glare daggers at the postman every time he fails to bring me the Amazon package with the second book.

The swearing doesn't bother me at all: it'd be weird to have these characters speak politely in this regard. It strikes me as odd to be offended by the language but not, for example, by the scenes of graphic torture.

If I were to worry about the swearing, I'd wonder about whether the use of sexual-taboo swearing is appropriate for this culture. It may well be--but it's not the only kind of swearing out there. We Anglo-Saxons used to worry tremendously about religious-taboo swearing (damn, hell, zounds, Christ, God, etc.), but not care about sex/scatalogical taboo swearing: the latter wasn't especially offensive, and it's not where people went when they wanted to offend or to express strong emotion.

That's changed over the past century or so. Now, religious swearing appears on the comics page, a place that sex swearing could never appear. Shows like Deadwood are in this respect stylized: characters convey emotion using modern swearing rather than historically-accurate swearing (as the latter would sound quaint to us).

Cultures tend to swear based on where their taboos are strongest. If your cultures in your books put their taboos around bodily functions, then the swearing makes total sense. If they don't, then it's stylized in order to convey the emotions and taboo-breaking of the swearing.

-Daniel
 
I realize this posting was awhile ago but since I discoverewd this blog in the last few months, what the hell.
We swear, we are swearing creatures. For me a book that replaces a swear word with either a lesser word or a unnecessary made up word is lacking. Yes on BDG they use the made up word frak. That was devised to get around censors in the 70's just like felgercarb was(I don't care for the new BSG so I don't know if they use this word in it.)
I don't recall the book's title but I read a sci-fi book years ago that replaced the word f*ck with the word rape. It was explained in the story by a character as being a more offensive word and therefore overshadowed f*ck. Personally, I thought some going "Rape!! that hurt was incredibly stupid.
Some works such as Tolkien's since they are written in a more archaic style would suffer from modern profanity. But I laugh myself silly at the notion of Gandalf telling the balrog to f*ck off.
I was a soldier and I do medieval re-enactment now. We swear because sometime no other word fits. I got thrown out of a faire once because after getting hit so hard in the balls I think my cup was imbedded in my flesh I lay on the ground and moaned f*ck over and over again.
But what word would fit other than that. Ouch? Darn?
I love your books Mr. Abercrombie and if I were still King of my particular realm I would knight you for Logan's speech about battle alone.
-Tim
 
I think we can learn a lot from Christopher Brookmyre who uses a lot of swearing in his books but defends himself by asking why people are OK with the murders, blood etc but not OK with the use of particular words. Ditto Mr Abercrombie -- no one seems to have complained about the torture, beheadings and general gory slaying, so why complain if the characters let loose the occasional oath?!
 
Wasn't the word f**k originally an anachronism for fornication *nder *onsent of the king? Bless the Anglo-saxons for giving us that.

As for 'answers on a postcard'- 'quim' doesn't get used very often, and that's a brilliant word...

Mr Abercrombie - I was recommended your books by a friend and the first one was so good I read all three in a week. You Sir, are a genius. Thankyou for the least pretentious fantasy novels I've ever read. Can't wait for 'Best Served Cold' (please let Glokta appear in it)!

Stuart
 
The thing about swearing in fantasy is that, as Mr Abercrumblie said, it is appropriate at the time.

The characters of Logen, Ferro and Black Dow being the examples; all are brutal and savage in various degrees, so it would be odd if one recieved a cut from an enemy and yelled "Ah crap!" or something.

Sometimes a foul mouth is as part of a character as a missing finger, a thunderous temper or a semi-sadistic personality.
 
I just have to put a plug in there for the conservative readers out there. I loved your books, Joe, but there were definitely some parts that made me uncomfortable. From my perspective, there's seldom an actual need for swearing in literature. Putting in swearing doesn't make a book feel honest to me. Pretty much anything you intend to convey with the use of swearing in literature can also be done without it. This is just an illustration of the fact that you can't please everyone. Every reader has their own opinion. Mine happens to be different from yours. Oh, did I mention I loved your books anyway? Some of the best writing I've read in a long time.
 
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